Penguins have signed Brian Dumoulin to a six-year deal with an AAV of $4.1 million

[meow]

dodint's stance on Letang is not completely unreasonable and, as far as I can tell, has very little to do with hate. Most people merely disagree with it.

QFT.

dodint's stance is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out.

Overruled

[Gaucho]

meow's stance on Hornqvist on the other hand is complete bollocks.

[mikey]

I hate Ryan Reeves

Don't let him hear you say that he will ******* kill you...

[meow]

Hey hey hey hey.

I have nothing against the player. My stance was firmly in the dreaded asset management realm of running a NHL team. The on-ice product would have suffered, quite severely I'm sure, if he were to be removed from the team, but as far as managing assets, I thought it was comparable to exposing Fleury.

[Kicksave]

I hate Ryan Reeves

Racist.

[shafnutz05]

I can't recall the gist of dodint's anti-Letang sentiment, but I thought it certainly had merit.

[columbia]

That he's a walking (and not skating) invalid.

[dodint]

I can't recall the gist of dodint's anti-Letang sentiment, but I thought it certainly had merit.

Dodint's letang hate is approaching Bennett levels, except Bennett sucks. So it's even more confusing this go around. Lol

It really isn't hate. I just think it's bad asset allocation to build a defense around a guy that consistently misses games and is getting older. People don't get healthier with age.

I have also said he consistently puts himself in situations to take late hits most players avoid; strange lack of awareness and/or blind trust in opponents.

[shafnutz05]

I agree with all of that. And as the team showed last year, they can win without him.

[Gaucho]

I maintain that the playoffs were proof how important he is.

[mikey]

I maintain that the playoffs were proof how important he is.

No question. I'll take 60 games of Letang per year over not having him at all...what happened last year is unprecedented and took two halves of heroic Conn Smyrhe level performances, neither from d-men, in Fleury then Crosby...could we as a group even rank the d-men of these playoffs with any consensus other than Hainsey being last?

By my foggy morning logic, the analogy is that Ron Francis was more important to those 90s teams than Mario because of what happened in the 96 ECF...

We need Letang.

[dodint]

Source of the post No question. I'll take 60 games of Letang per year over not having him at all...what happened last year is unprecedented and took two halves of heroic Conn Smyrhe level performances, neither from d-men, in Fleury then Crosby...could we as a group even rank the d-men of these playoffs with any consensus other than Hainsey being last?

By my foggy morning logic, the analogy is that Ron Francis was more important to those 90s teams than Mario because of what happened in the 96 ECF...

We need Letang.

You position is common, but flawed. The question isn't "Is it better to have Letang in the lineup or not?" Yes, clearly it's better to have him in. The question is "Is it better to have Letang as an asset for this team?" I say it isn't. I would prefer him to be disappeared and replaced with someone healthier but perhaps not as skilled, or replaced with two average players to fill out the NHL level D corps. Right now the D corps is built around a guy that can't get on the ice and the whole system is crippled for it.

Does a team need Letang to win a cup? No, teams win without him nearly every year. This Penguin team won without him this year.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Source of the post No question. I'll take 60 games of Letang per year over not having him at all...what happened last year is unprecedented and took two halves of heroic Conn Smyrhe level performances, neither from d-men, in Fleury then Crosby...could we as a group even rank the d-men of these playoffs with any consensus other than Hainsey being last?

By my foggy morning logic, the analogy is that Ron Francis was more important to those 90s teams than Mario because of what happened in the 96 ECF...

We need Letang.

You position is common, but flawed. The question isn't "Is it better to have Letang in the lineup or not?" Yes, clearly it's better to have him in. The question is "Is it better to have Letang as an asset for this team?" I say it isn't. I would prefer him to be disappeared and replaced with someone healthier but perhaps not as skilled, or replaced with two average players to fill out the NHL level D corps. Right now the D corps is built around a guy that can't get on the ice and the whole system is crippled for it.

Does a team need Letang to win a cup? No, teams win without him nearly every year. This Penguin team won without him this year.

can't get on the ice? he played almost 30 mins a game last season in the playoffs with his only game being missed because he killed a guy.

saying he can't get on the ice is Godric tier hyperbole

[dodint]

k

[shmenguin]

Define "crippled"

[the wicked child]

I understand the concerns, but I challenge that teams win all the time without a bona-fide number one Dman. I'd say that is actually quite rare.

I can't remember the 06 Canes, but since then, Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Gonchar, Keith, Doughty, Chara, Letang...

Just because it somehow worked out this year doesn't mean we should expect that to happen again.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

let's trade Tanger for Subban

[dodint]

Define "crippled"

Scrambling to pick up a Hainsey and Streit instead of signing a long term player whose career in Pittsburgh will last longer than 5 months.

Again, I perceive Letang as a depreciating asset. I'm not thinking about Letang the person, he seems like a nice guy and all.
I just don't like him as a centerpiece for a D corps.

You (MiMH) don't have to agree, that's fine, but the one liners don't really do anything to advance the discussion. Anything of substance to add?

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Define "crippled"

Scrambling to pick up a Hainsey and Streit instead of signing a long term player whose career in Pittsburgh will last longer than 5 months.

Again, I perceive Letang as a depreciating asset. I'm not thinking about Letang the person, he seems like a nice guy and all.
I just don't like him as a centerpiece for a D corps.

You (MiMH) don't have to agree, that's fine, but the one liners don't really do anything to advance the discussion. Anything of substance to add?

k

[dodint]

So, no? Alrighty. The 'k' was in response to your ramblings about Godric.

You cite that Letang logged a lot of minutes two years ago winning a cup, while ignoring that he logged zero minutes winning the most recent one. I mean, what am I to glean from that? It doesn't even address my actual position that a Letang replacement(s) takes those minutes. What do you want?

[NTP66]

We can win without him, obvious, but our chances of winning with him are much higher. I go into each season assuming that he's going to miss 10-20 games, with the hope that none of those are in the postseason. Last year was an anomaly, as I don't believe he's ever missed a significant amount of time in the postseason before.

[dodint]

I understand the concerns, but I challenge that teams win all the time without a bona-fide number one Dman. I'd say that is actually quite rare.

I can't remember the 06 Canes, but since then, Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Gonchar, Keith, Doughty, Chara, Letang...

Just because it somehow worked out this year doesn't mean we should expect that to happen again.

I guess the unspoken inference in my argument is that when *I* think of future cup runs I don't picture Letang being there, by default. Age and surgeries don't make a player better or more reliable. To me, shifting him away for other assets is more prudent. I agree that having a 1D is important, and I think Letang is in the way of that instead of providing that capability.

As always I'll say that none of what I say matters, it's just message board musings. I don't bring this stuff up, but enjoy defending my position when it comes up organically. And I'll also be as happy as anyone if I'm proven wrong, I don't wish for him to be injured (again) just so I can dredge up an old post for an internet 'gotcha.'

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

So, no? Alrighty. The 'k' was in response to your ramblings about Godric.

You cite that Letang logged a lot of minutes two years ago winning a cup, while ignoring that he logged zero minutes winning the most recent one. I mean, what am I to glean from that? It doesn't even address my actual position that a bona fide Letang replacement(s) takes those minutes. What do you want?

your point is that he "can't get on the ice". My point is that that's objectively wrong because he logged the ELEVENTH MOST minutes of any player in the playoffs since 2000 in the 2016 Stanley Cup run. That's not indicative of a player that can't get on the ice. You responded with "k" to me calling you hyperbolic which apparently you see as a rant.

Average defensemen don't move the needle at all. Honestly, I think our current d roster other than Letang (Maatta, Dumo, Cole, Schultz, Hunwick) is already chock full of average defensemen, so getting two more is going just going to push one of those out of the lineup.

It sucks that he missed these playoffs but let's not pretend like this is a pattern. And I don't care about the regular season...we could make the playoffs with 6 cardboard Orpiks on the blue line


never mind the fact that he's getting paid about 2 mill less than the highest paid d-man in the league, Subban and is the 8th highest in pay overall for dmen which is a great deal

[dodint]

Yeah, our positions are basically completely diametrically opposed. You're happy to reward past success and overlook faults; and I'm bearish on the quality of his game when he returns from this unique injury.

Here's hoping you're right as you're on the side of the GM and that's all that really matters.

[Pavel Bure]

There is not a Letang trade that can be made that makes the Pens as a whole better.