Fifth Avenue Forum

I'm just pointing it out, that having it both ways shouldn't be a thing.

Cops use their judgement all the time though. Some people get a warning instead of a ticket, etc.

My main point is that a police officer resorting to violence when it comes from a point of anger (not professional take down/restraint) is never acceptable and, frankly, I can't believe anyone thinks it's okay for the cops to give someone a "little beating" from time to time. They get into that profession knowing their going to take abuse and should know how to deal with it calmly and rationally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

I'm just pointing it out, that having it both ways shouldn't be a thing.

Cops use their judgement all the time though. Some people get a warning instead of a ticket, etc.

My main point is that a police officer resorting to violence when it comes from a point of anger (not professional take down/restraint) is never acceptable and, frankly, I can't believe anyone thinks it's okay for the cops to give someone a "little beating" from time to time. They get into that profession knowing their going to take abuse and should know how to deal with it calmly and rationally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

I don't think it's OK to give someone a little beating, but if a person is restraining to the point of trying to escape, I do believe it's in the best interest of the officer and public to use necessary force to subdue the suspect.

Like the Kennywood video, the guy putting up a fight (the guy that hit the girl with a fan) is perceived to be resisting arrest. The first punch to get him to the ground is acceptable, the repeated hits after that, are not IMO (mind you, I'm not losing sleep over it), as he was being subdued.

https://www.wtae.com/article/watch-kenn ... n/28499308

I'm just pointing it out, that having it both ways shouldn't be a thing.

Cops use their judgement all the time though. Some people get a warning instead of a ticket, etc.

My main point is that a police officer resorting to violence when it comes from a point of anger (not professional take down/restraint) is never acceptable and, frankly, I can't believe anyone thinks it's okay for the cops to give someone a "little beating" from time to time. They get into that profession knowing their going to take abuse and should know how to deal with it calmly and rationally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

Easier said than done, imo.

I'm just pointing it out, that having it both ways shouldn't be a thing.

Cops use their judgement all the time though. Some people get a warning instead of a ticket, etc.

My main point is that a police officer resorting to violence when it comes from a point of anger (not professional take down/restraint) is never acceptable and, frankly, I can't believe anyone thinks it's okay for the cops to give someone a "little beating" from time to time. They get into that profession knowing their going to take abuse and should know how to deal with it calmly and rationally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

Easier said than done, imo.

Easier said than done, imo.

Yes it is. Which is why they need to undergo training, psyche evals, etc. I never said it was easy. I doubt I could do it. But then again, I don't want to be a cop.

I would wager that you'd have an endless cycle of washouts if you required them to go through stringent training on the job, which is often recommended.

I think the reality is, is that while I agree they need to humanize cops as much as possible, what people ask for in regards to sensible/human options are usually always limited, purely because; there's never enough cops, they aren't paid well, they're asked to do more than they're tasked with routinely.

I guess I'm always in the "I don't know how you fix the solution if nobody is willing to fix the real problems" camp.

To which I will also say that the Cops need to stop defending their own when one goes astray. If they want to be looked at as people who uphold the law, they also need to realize that includes eating one of their own when they go against it. But that'll never ever happen.

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

When Mrs Tif was younger and living in Japan, she and her roommates tossed water balloons off the balcony of their 7th floor apartment all the time. They'd hit people, but mostly they'd splash parked cars..... some of which were Yakuza-owned. The police visited them, and in the most Japanese thing that has ever happened, told them, "There is a large beautiful park across the street; if you must throw water balloons, you can go over there."

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

Someone threw a water balloon on one of the girls in our group on halloween from a few floors up, IIRC...and we threw a cinderblock through their window...

That's cool

Someone threw a water balloon on one of the girls in our group on halloween from a few floors up, IIRC...and we threw a cinderblock through their window...

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

I agree with this. Doing a quick google search in Pittsburgh it says the average salary for a police officer is a shade under 50k.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/pitt ... O11,25.htm

I bet some of the local police departments have officers making way less than that. I don't know what the happy medium is here, but the pay is too low. Make the pay better, and make the requirements more stringent. Not really an easy way to do that though.

I think the intelligence standards for officers should be higher. I've said this countless times but too many high school meatheads/bullies/military dropouts in the blue line for my liking.

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

I agree with this. Doing a quick google search in Pittsburgh it says the average salary for a police officer is a shade under 50k.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/pitt ... O11,25.htm

I bet some of the local police departments have officers making way less than that. I don't know what the happy medium is here, but the pay is too low. Make the pay better, and make the requirements more stringent. Not really an easy way to do that though.

They make all their money with overtime.

Yup.

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

not sarcastic. it's an obvious;y underfunded part of our infrastructure. it's high responsibility, low income and low barrier to entry. that's an outrageous equation. people who haven't explored analytical thinking in healthy, formalized ways are being asked to make split second decisions with human life at stake.

add increased pay, and you get increased competition and increased prestige - which of course leads to increased performance.

I think the intelligence standards for officers should be higher. I've said this countless times but too many high school meatheads/bullies/military dropouts in the blue line for my liking.

Those are the people that are nuts enough to go into dangerous situations though.

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

I agree with this. Doing a quick google search in Pittsburgh it says the average salary for a police officer is a shade under 50k.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/pitt ... O11,25.htm

I bet some of the local police departments have officers making way less than that. I don't know what the happy medium is here, but the pay is too low. Make the pay better, and make the requirements more stringent. Not really an easy way to do that though.

They make all their money with overtime.

Part of the problem here is that you're asking mostly unqualified individuals to make up their low pay by off-setting it with something that affects their decision-making skills.

We have rules in place for truck drivers to not be able to drive for so many hours because of what it does from a sleep-deprived and mental process. It should be even more strict for someone with the ability to kill another person and make that choice.

I think the intelligence standards for officers should be higher. I've said this countless times but too many high school meatheads/bullies/military dropouts in the blue line for my liking.

I think intelligence is important, but I think that high common sense would be more important. Or a high level or “street smarts.”

police deserve better pay and we deserve better police. The 2 are connected.

Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I believe low-pay to be connected with not always attracting the best person. If it was higher pay, and the entry requirements higher, I do believe they'd be better people. I think right now, you get military flunkies and not the best people because that barrier for entry is so low.

I agree with this. Doing a quick google search in Pittsburgh it says the average salary for a police officer is a shade under 50k.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/pitt ... O11,25.htm

I bet some of the local police departments have officers making way less than that. I don't know what the happy medium is here, but the pay is too low. Make the pay better, and make the requirements more stringent. Not really an easy way to do that though.

They make all their money with overtime.

Part of the problem here is that you're asking mostly unqualified individuals to make up their low pay by off-setting it with something that affects their decision-making skills.

We have rules in place for truck drivers to not be able to drive for so many hours because of what it does from a sleep-deprived and mental process. It should be even more strict for someone with the ability to kill another person and make that choice.

OT, as far as I can tell, usually means paperwork time. i don't think we have dudes walking the streets for 20 hour shifts

Yeah, one of my best friends is NYPD and his dad was a state trooper for decades in NJ...most of their OT time is paperwork or waiting for the D.A. to give the go-ahead with [whatever action]...

Or if you were a pittsburgh cop, you would go drink in the southside and write it up as security work hours.

Yeah, one of my best friends is NYPD and his dad was a state trooper for decades in NJ...most of their OT time is paperwork or waiting for the D.A. to give the go-ahead with [whatever action]...

the best example was "stop and frisk" in NYC. you go through the motions of your normal shift, and then at the 11th hour you ask a guy to empty his pockets, and when you see weed, you bust him. the processing gives you easy OT and the precinct bumps up its metrics for grant money.

and if this isn't grotesque enough, weed has been decriminalized in NYC as long as you keep it hidden. officers asking the perps to show them what's in their pockets creates a nice little horrible loophole that allows for weed busts that would otherwise be impossible.

but it's cool, because you only bust people that can't afford lawyers, so it's a win win.