Religion Discussion Thread

Postby **Avyran** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:03 pm

*Shrug* Sounds like your religion is science, then.

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:10 pm

Science answers all the questions
it doesn't account for the true beginning of all things. but neither does religion.

Who says it won't? Anyway, the point I was making was the "God of the gaps" thing. God has always been given credit for everything we don't understand. With human reason and science, poor God has shrunk to nothing more than "the true beginning of all things."

God has shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. Is there any reason to believe God is responsible for anything?

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:10 pm

*Shrug* Sounds like your religion is science, then.

My question is WHY people believe.

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:20 pm

*Shrug* Sounds like your religion is science, then.

And if you want to call science a religion, have at it.

But DO NOT equate my "religion" (science) with yours. Scientific results are observable, testable, reproducible. Changeable if observations demand.

NOTHING in your religion lives up to those standards.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:21 pm

Who says it won't? Anyway, the point I was making was the "God of the gaps" thing.

i agree with your point...guess i was just nitpicking.

regarding the search for answers, i always find it strange how people can't conceptualize death without adding an afterlife to go along with it. it's pretty easy to imagine eternal nothingness. you lose consciousness every night. whether you were asleep for 2 minutes or 2 centuries...or eternity - you'd only notice the difference after waking up. just remove the waking up part, and that's death.

Postby **Avyran** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:22 pm

I'm starting to understand why you've been called a militant atheist. So my discussion with you is done. Not wanting to engage in this style of discussion.

(Edited the rest away.)

Postby **grunthy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:31 pm

Militant atheists are as bad as militant religious people. Insults and my way can only be the right way. Both sides are the reasons why you cannot have a legit conversation about either side.

Postby **MWB** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:34 pm

Who says it won't? Anyway, the point I was making was the "God of the gaps" thing.
i agree with your point...guess i was just nitpicking.

regarding the search for answers, i always find it strange how people can't conceptualize death without adding an afterlife to go along with it. it's pretty easy to imagine eternal nothingness. you lose consciousness every night. whether you were asleep for 2 minutes or 2 centuries...or eternity - you'd only notice the difference after waking up. just remove the waking up part, and that's death.

When you're asleep you still have thoughts through your dreams. You can be conscious of being asleep. Death would just be nothing. I don't think it has to do with people unable to conceptualize that, I think it's not wanting to accept that. It's a pretty depressing thought, to me anyway.

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:35 pm

I'm starting to understand why you've been called a militant atheist. So my discussion with you is done. Not wanting to engage in this style of discussion.

(Edited the rest away.)

Sorry, man. Did not wish to offend. But you're the one that equated science with religion. I was just responding to that.

Perhaps we can talk about some more specific religious questions?

Like the problem of evil in the world. If God can prevent evil and does not, then He is immoral. If He cannot prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:36 pm

Militant atheists are as bad as militant religious people. Insults and my way can only be the right way. Both sides are the reasons why you cannot have a legit conversation about either side.

I take it you feel that I insulted someone? What was my insult?

Postby **grunthy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:37 pm

I'm starting to understand why you've been called a militant atheist. So my discussion with you is done. Not wanting to engage in this style of discussion.

(Edited the rest away.)
Sorry, man. Did not wish to offend. But you're the one that equated science with religion. I was just responding to that.

Perhaps we can talk about some more specific religious questions?

Like the problem of evil in the world. If God can prevent evil and does not, then He is immoral. If He cannot prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.

Science and religion go hand in hand. Many advances, noted in this thread, have come thru religion/ religious people.

Why would God stop evil?

Postby **CBear3** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:38 pm

God can prevent me from driving my car off a cliff, should he? What's the purpose of life if you're not given the choice of right vs. wrong? Why create beings to make them puppets? Meanwhile, weren't you advocating there is no moral absolutes in the LGP thread?

Postby **grunthy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:39 pm

Militant atheists are as bad as militant religious people. Insults and my way can only be the right way. Both sides are the reasons why you cannot have a legit conversation about either side.
I take it you feel that I insulted someone? What was my insult?

You obviously insulted avryan.

Postby **count2infinity** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:39 pm

Just because scientific findings have happened from the work of religious people does not necessarily mean that science and religion "go hand in hand".

Additionally... why wouldn't God stop evil?

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:40 pm

Science and religion go hand in hand. Many advances, noted in this thread, have come thru religion/ religious people.

Why would God stop evil?

That's a very interesting question. Why would He?

I mean, a lot of people would prefer that He did ...

Postby **grunthy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:41 pm

Just because scientific findings have happened from the work of religious people does not necessarily mean that science and religion "go hand in hand".

Additionally... why wouldn't God stop evil?

Because he would be stopping our free will.

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:42 pm

You obviously insulted avryan.

If so, I apologize most profusely.

Can you tell me how I did so that I won't do it again?

Postby **Kraftster** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:42 pm

I think it's important to go back to the experiential part of faith that Avyran discussed earlier. Experiential belief is compelling. I can't personally understand how one can have experiential belief in God, but I can relate to how moved one can be by experiential belief.

I had a balance test done once. For part of the test, they stick a tube in your ear and heat it and cool it quickly. It makes you feel like the room is spinning around you. You can sit there and tell yourself the room isn't spinning all you want, but it feels 100% like the room is spinning. If I woke up to that without knowing, I'd swear to you and everyone else that the room was spinning.

What if belief in God feels like that?

Postby **count2infinity** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:43 pm

God can prevent me from driving my car off a cliff, should he? What's the purpose of life if you're not given the choice of right vs. wrong? Why create beings to make them puppets? Meanwhile, weren't you advocating there is no moral absolutes in the LGP thread?

You driving your own car off a cliff is your own decision and if it's your own evils then fine, but why would God allow for that airline crash in Europe where a guy took 150 people with him? Why would God give innocent kids terminal cancer? Why does he allow terrible things to happen to people that seemingly don't deserve it. I've hear many times "God has a plan" and "God works in mysterious ways". I'm sorry, that's just not enough for me to explain the terrible things that happen in some people's lives.

Postby **MWB** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:43 pm

Science and religion can coexist, but they don't go hand in hand, in many cases.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:45 pm

Who says it won't? Anyway, the point I was making was the "God of the gaps" thing.
i agree with your point...guess i was just nitpicking.

regarding the search for answers, i always find it strange how people can't conceptualize death without adding an afterlife to go along with it. it's pretty easy to imagine eternal nothingness. you lose consciousness every night. whether you were asleep for 2 minutes or 2 centuries...or eternity - you'd only notice the difference after waking up. just remove the waking up part, and that's death.
When you're asleep you still have thoughts through your dreams. You can be conscious of being asleep. Death would just be nothing. I don't think it has to do with people unable to conceptualize that, I think it's not wanting to accept that. It's a pretty depressing thought, to me anyway.

you have dreams. not for 8 hours. i'm not sure that's germane to the topic, though. the point is, if you can imagine unconsciousness, you can imagine death.

and i've heard countless people say that they can't conceptualize such a thing. it's much more common than the opposite.

Postby **MWB** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:45 pm

Just because scientific findings have happened from the work of religious people does not necessarily mean that science and religion "go hand in hand".

Additionally... why wouldn't God stop evil?

Because he would be stopping our free will.

How is it free will for someone to die of cancer they got through no fault of their own?

Postby **redwill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:47 pm

Just because scientific findings have happened from the work of religious people does not necessarily mean that science and religion "go hand in hand".

Additionally... why wouldn't God stop evil?
Because he would be stopping our free will.

Assuming one believes in heaven, do you think that there will be free will there?

In other words, will those who go to heaven (not me, obviously) have the ability of independent thought and thus the ability to do evil in heaven?

Postby **grunthy** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:48 pm

You obviously insulted avryan.
If so, I apologize most profusely.

Can you tell me how I did so that I won't do it again?

You would have to ask him, but some Christians believe their beliefs are observable(things that happen in their lives), testable(prayers), and reproducible(prayers again). I'm not saying he is that type of Christian, but some are.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:49 pm

i guess this could be offensive, but whatever...my thought on the matter, and the biggest reason i don't believe in a god worth believing in is the following thought:

if an all powerful god exists, he really hates africans.

there is too much tragedy in the world to think that there is a god who is an active participant in it. and if he is, then, in my opinion, he's not worthy of worship.