Non Political Current Events Thread

[Morkle]

Is that what happened? They tased somebody for throwing water on them? The article was firewalled for me.

No. The cops didn't do anything after getting water thrown on them, they simply walked away.

But apparently it's things like having water thrown on them that make it okay for cops to brutalize people.

I do think there's a line between doing nothing and using some type of force to restrain them. No matter what they do, someone will complain about it.

[AuthorTony]

I do think there's a line between doing nothing and using some type of force to restrain them. No matter what they do, someone will complain about it.

I'd be fine with the water throwers being arrested.

[Morkle]

I do think there's a line between doing nothing and using some type of force to restrain them. No matter what they do, someone will complain about it.

I'd be fine with the water throwers being arrested.

So at what point do you feel they get to physical? If they throw them to the ground during the arrest? Where does the line start and stop if they're squirming, etc.?

Not that it would happen, but when do you feel appropriate force ends and too much force starts if a person is resisting?

I do think anytime a person is in cuffs, physical force is too much, but until they're in cuffs, you gotta get them to comply.

[Morkle]

Also not an argumentative statement, just trying to get a measure.

[AuthorTony]

So at what point do you feel they get to physical? If they throw them to the ground during the arrest? Where does the line start and stop if they're squirming, etc.?

Not that it would happen, but when do you feel appropriate force ends and too much force starts if a person is resisting?

I do think anytime a person is in cuffs, physical force is too much, but until they're in cuffs, you gotta get them to comply.

I'm sure there are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of arrests every day where there is no excessive force. There's a clear difference between using the necessary force and when a cop decides, This guy's a prick and I'm going to dish out some pain.

This is proper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h442I6BF5zQ

This is too physical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2hzSJBaHzU

[Lelldorin]

I would say that a person that intentionally throws water at someone should not complain if the receiver becomes aggressive.

Sure, you should not go ASAP Rocky on harassers, but a small beating is not too out of order for a longer harassment

[CBear3]

Any arrest of water throwers is going to get physical, that’s half the point to goad them into something on camera. While they’re interfering with an arrest, there’s virtually nothing to be gained by attempting enforcement at that juncture.

[AuthorTony]

I'm not saying they should be arrested, but if a cop chooses to do so, I'd be fine with that. I think it's very professional of the cops to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's how police should behave.

As for the receiver being justified in becoming aggressive - sorry, no. That's not how it works. Police officers are supposed to be professional. They are trained (in theory) to handle situations non violently. There's never an excuse for them to act out in physical anger and if they can't control their emotions and temper, they need a new career.

And this...

a small beating is not too out of order for a longer harassment

[Morkle]

I'm not saying they should be arrested, but if a cop chooses to do so, I'd be fine with that. I think it's very professional of the cops to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's how police should behave.

As for the receiver being justified in becoming aggressive - sorry, no. That's not how it works. Police officers are supposed to be professional. They are trained (in theory) to handle situations non violently. There's never an excuse for them to act out in physical anger and if they can't control their emotions and temper, they need a new career.

The cops are in trouble because this is an assault by definition, per my understanding. A passive take is not correct and they have since corrected it by arresting the people on camera. That's not professional by the cops to allow that to happen, and that's certainly not how they should behave, imo.

[MWB]

Any arrest of water throwers is going to get physical, that’s half the point to goad them into something on camera. While they’re interfering with an arrest, there’s virtually nothing to be gained by attempting enforcement at that juncture.

And this is probably the most difficult aspect of being a cop, I would think. What is the likely end result of my next action? In this case, does it make sense to go after a person for throwing water (rude, illegal(?), detriment to my job), or will it just escalate things to a more dangerous point for everyone?

[robbiestoupe]

I'm not saying they should be arrested, but if a cop chooses to do so, I'd be fine with that. I think it's very professional of the cops to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's how police should behave.

As for the receiver being justified in becoming aggressive - sorry, no. That's not how it works. Police officers are supposed to be professional. They are trained (in theory) to handle situations non violently. There's never an excuse for them to act out in physical anger and if they can't control their emotions and temper, they need a new career.

The cops are in trouble because this is an assault by definition, per my understanding. A passive take is not correct and they have since corrected it by arresting the people on camera. That's not professional by the cops to allow that to happen, and that's certainly not how they should behave, imo.

I'm actually OK with them arresting the offenders after the fact. The cops probably knew they were being goaded on camera, and decided to walk away. They took the "we'll get you later" tactic.

[dodint]

So none of you saw the video of the woman who called 911 in NY because people were having a water fight during a heatwave and when the cops showed up they allowed the crowd to dump buckets of water on the woman? I imagine not judging by the tone of these responses.

[shmenguin]

I'm not saying they should be arrested, but if a cop chooses to do so, I'd be fine with that. I think it's very professional of the cops to diffuse the situation and walk away. That's how police should behave.

As for the receiver being justified in becoming aggressive - sorry, no. That's not how it works. Police officers are supposed to be professional. They are trained (in theory) to handle situations non violently. There's never an excuse for them to act out in physical anger and if they can't control their emotions and temper, they need a new career.

And this...

a small beating is not too out of order for a longer harassment

yeah, this is pretty cut and dry. is there any value as a long-term deterrent, or for immediate diffusing of the situation if a cop conducts a "small beating"? no? ok - then you don't get to beat someone up. because you're allegedly a mature a adult who doesn't lash out emotionally on the job.

i'm not saying it's easy, but you can't have government-issued weapons and armor, and then clock someone just because you're mad at them - and then also not be subject to recourse. personal pride has little to do with professionalism in situations like these.

[Morkle]

So none of you saw the video of the woman who called 911 in NY because people were having a water fight during a heatwave and when the cops showed up they allowed the crowd to dump buckets of water on the woman? I imagine not judging by the tone of these responses.

viewtopic.php?p=705940#p705940

The story said nothing about the lady calling 911, or the cops allowing them to dump water on them? Or was it sarcastic and I missed it?

[shmenguin]

So none of you saw the video of the woman who called 911 in NY because people were having a water fight during a heatwave and when the cops showed up they allowed the crowd to dump buckets of water on the woman? I imagine not judging by the tone of these responses.

this seems like a classic bored, non-serious dodint post. what's your point, exactly?

[dodint]

So none of you saw the video of the woman who called 911 in NY because people were having a water fight during a heatwave and when the cops showed up they allowed the crowd to dump buckets of water on the woman? I imagine not judging by the tone of these responses.

viewtopic.php?p=705940#p705940

The story said nothing about the lady calling 911, or the cops allowing them to dump water on them? Or was it sarcastic and I missed it?

I'm referencing a completely different incident. During some blackouts last week during the oppressive heatwave in NYC a group of young people (18-24?) were running around with buckets of water and supersoakers having a play fight. Some Karen called 911. The cops showed up and told her to get real. The young people then proceeded to dump buckets of water on her. At one point she attempts to jump into the police SUV but the doors were locked, lulz were had.

Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout ... ight_this/

Given how divisive throwing water on cops has become (can't believe there are two sides to that debate), I realized nobody saw this woman being assaulted while the police stand by or else we would've had quite the debate about it.

[Kane]

Screw Karen.

[Troy Loney]

I've never been more outraged in my life.

[shmenguin]

can't believe there are two sides to that debate

what do you think the debate is about? i'm seeing it as a higher-level discussion about how appropriate personal, emotion-driven revenge is for police officers, and not about the nature of water throwing. do people "deserve" to be smacked by police when they could instead be easily restrained, for example.

[dodint]

Morkle's 'passive take' observation is what struck me as most unusual here.

[Morkle]

I mean why is that unusual? Absolutely if they didn't say it was OK to throw water on them, I'd be pretty steamed as an officer and would have arrested them on the spot. Not with force maybe, but you can't be ok with that blatant disrespect, then ask to be respected in turn.

[Morkle]

Same for the other way around. You never get the context completely on the other side. If that lady had felt threatened, which it seems she was, the officers absolutely should have done more to try and resolve the situation.

[dodint]

The 'not professional' bit is what caught me. It's a deescalation of force situation and they acted well. You seemed to be holding out that the badge needs to be defended at a cost that goes beyond reason.

Assault usually (lots of jurisdictional statutory differences, criminal v. civll etc) needs to rise to the level of the offended being put in a state of fear of bodily harm. I just don't see how it rises to that.

[Morkle]

The 'not professional' bit is what caught me. It's a deescalation of force situation and they acted well. You seemed to be holding out that the badge needs to be defended at a cost that goes beyond reason.

Assault usually (lots of jurisdictional statutory differences, criminal v. civll etc) needs to rise to the level of the offended being put in a state of fear of bodily harm. I just don't see how it rises to that.

The officers had been sent to disperse disorderly groups at fire hydrants during a three-day heat wave, and in both incidents left without arresting the assailants, who were egged on by bystanders.

The police were still seeking at least one other man involved in one of the incidents, in Harlem, where an officer was struck in the head as he was handcuffing a man with an open arrest warrant on the back of a car.

To me, clearly, they weren't doing their job, considering they were arrested at a later time. If you want to call it upholding the badge/protecting the badge then fine. I see this as one of the things that kind of grinds my gears, people look at this and will think it's OK, then the next cop that arrests them on the spot will be protested against by escalating the situation, etc. I'm just pointing it out, that having it both ways shouldn't be a thing.

[Morkle]

An in regards to the inverse where the Karen called the cops. They have a duty to de-escalate the situation there too, I can't say if they did or didn't, I didn't get to watch the video.